as he taught the gun he claimed to have
two barns the person threatening you
cannot see you as something that's
dispensable I picked up a chair told the
guys to run the consequence could be
they want everyone to know when they
kill me I'm Rabbi Charlie and I'm
grateful to be a liar
I'm a rabbi at Temple Emanuel in
Winston-Salem North Carolina the first
16 years of my rabbinic career I spent
at congregation Beth Israel in
Colleyville Texas January 15
2022 was a Shabbat morning it was a
Sabbath morning this was still during
covet times so while some people were
joining us in person most of the time
people were joining online I had Larry
Jeff and Shane that day trying to help
me out get things set and organized I
was setting up the zoom setting up
Facebook live when there was a knock at
the door I went over and the stranger
asked if we had a night shelter I let
the individual in I was talking with him
trying to get a sense of his story there
weren't any specific concerns after
about 45 minutes into the service my
back was to the congregation I heard
what I thought was the click of a gun I
went to just check in the primordial
sense when you're a human being of being
under threat just kicks in and it's a
very powerful and strong Instinct and
immediately you have an individual who
has to step out of One's Own one role
and into another which is about
protection both of the South and of the
others around him I said to the
individual who was sitting all the way
in the back of the congregation right
next to the kitchen I told them look if
you've warmed up if you've had your tea
you're welcome to to head on M that's
when he pulled the gun
as he pulled the gun
he started to shout he claimed to have
two bongs I backed away I had my hands
out bombs you're talking about the
destruction of everybody and it also
says something incredibly powerful and
that's that the gunman is prepared to
die and that gives you very few
bargaining tools people that were online
and observing what was going on they
called 9-1-1 right away within a just a
minute or two we had a police officer
show up at the door the gunman starts
saying that he wants to clear the area
no one within the bomb's rage then
starts shouting about the idea of
talking with a prominent Rabbi he was
trying to get a convicted terrorist
release he had flown from England came
all the way to Texas because he really
believed that Jews controlled everything
if he took Jews hostage he would be able
to get what he wanted that's concerning
this is somebody who psychologically is
not in a place where they can discern
reality from a non-reality base they're
demanding things that are literally
impossible to achieve they're delusional
about the power that you have and that
your community has the only way that
you're going to conceive with this
ending is if they either make it end
tragic for everyone or somebody steps in
they are the only two options
running wasn't an option for us we
couldn't hide we couldn't barricade
ourselves we couldn't put anything
between us and him it was an open
Sanctuary I had tried to maintain a calm
non-anxious presence tried to listen
when he was complaining he would go on
rants he would talk about lots of
different groups of people we weren't
questioning anything that he said we
were just trying to pacify him I wanted
him to see us as human beings violent
offenders often talk about the most
difficult things that they endure and
number one is the victim seeming Too
Human for them the fact that Rabbi
Charlie knows that he needs to be seen
as a human as an individual with
feelings and meaning that is incredibly
helpful
throughout the course of the day he
allowed us to use the restroom each of
us went one at a time we all had the
opportunity
to save ourselves no one went to just
save themselves and that means that they
have an opportunity to use manipulation
techniques to get him on side if one had
left he would feel that he'd been
betrayed after about an hour and a half
the FBI negotiator got on the line
trying to get somebody released as a
show of good faith
I thought Sheen had a heart issue and he
kept on holding his chest and it created
a real sense of concern and shade is
holding on to his heart throughout the
course of the day the government is
basically using my phone to talk with
the FBI negotiator
but is looking through all these text
messages that I'm receiving of love and
support and he keeps talking about how
he's compassionate he
likes us and Larry reminds him of his
dad the people who he's met that day
they're seeing him as a scary individual
but actually he knows in his heart that
he's also all these other shades of self
that's why he decides to start talking
about who he is as a human being as
opposed to who he is as a terrorist
eventually that idea of compassion and
how he saw himself as compassion the
gunman gave Shane an opportunity to lead
as a show of good faith
Shane who knew that he was more mobile
than Larry so why don't we let Larry go
instead and the gunman released Larry he
allowed him to walk out the door now the
three of us who were made were able to
move quickly when we needed to Shane is
very manipulative in the most positive
of ways the actual gunman now feels that
they are willing to sacrifice themselves
so now they're not just human they're
almost superhuman they've allowed this
vulnerable person to leave that makes
the gunman question his Humanity further
he pretty much kept his finger on the
trigger basically the entire day at the
end of the night
and he saw that he was not getting what
he wanted things turned really dark he
was yelling at the FBI negotiator saying
that he was going to line us up and
start to kill us he hasn't been taken
seriously as far as he's concerned he's
not being respected by the FBI when
somebody has a gun and bombs that's the
very worst case scenario playing out
right there then all of a sudden he got
really calm
that was really scary
but he asked me if he could have a cup
of juice
I served him some soda in a in a cup and
he starts to preach at us again he is
holding out the cup of liquid
and for the first time all day instead
of having his finger on the trigger he's
got a hand on the gun but it's not on
the trigger
and he's holding out that cup of liquid
you were looking for every opportunity
and at that moment
when we were probably at the most dire
situation that happened to also be our
best opportunity I picked up a chair
told the guys to rot I threw it at it
and that was enough of a distraction
that we were able to get out of the
congregation I'd attended active shooter
training I was remembering from training
when you leave a building get out of the
line of sight of the doorway and so I
went around the building as quickly as I
could about 20 30 seconds after we were
safely behind an armored vehicle we
heard an explosion
there was the FBI breaching the
congregation we did hear a little bit of
gunfire take place within the sanctuary
the government had said all day long
that he wasn't planning on Surviving the
gunman was killed
they work together to escape there is
something really Testament to their
capacity to keep calm for their faith to
keep hold and essentially for them to
believe that there was hope I'm just
grateful to be alive I was grateful to
be able to hug my family again just a
lot of gratitude from the moment the
gunman arrived what was unique about
Rabbi Charlie and the individuals who
were present within is that they have
the presence of mind to work together to
psychologically remain strong to believe
that they potentially could escape and
to all mobilize in the moment when that
became possible and it's Testament to
some very special qualities in the
individuals who endured that day
[Music]